Well, with all the tabloids going apeshit about Prince Harry this morning, you have to start wondering if he’s taking after his grandad. Prince Philip is well known for his “faux pas”. Or more realistically, his blatant outpourings of humorous, yet insulting, gobshite.
The thing is, are Harry’s comments that bad? Or is this just more tabloid ****-stirring? Start with the fact that Harry’s not been in the news for a while. Most recently it was about how good he’s been and his serving in Afghanistan and the like. This video was filmed three years ago when he was fairly raw and in the army.
There’s another point. He was a squaddie. Members of the armed forces are well-known for being somewhat abrasive with their use of his grandmother’s English. And the fact is the video was a “home video” – in so far as that term still exists with the likes of YouTube and a million cheap Saturday night TV shows prepared to broadcast your every cockup to the slavering masses. I’m sure had he been near TV cameras he’d have shown more restraint.
But the big issue with myself is – did he mean it in an abusive manner? I’ve been brought up with my grandmother calling the local corner shop, “the Paki‘s”. She doesn’t dislike people of any ethnic minority to the best of my knowledge and always had the best relationship with the guy who ran the place. Face it, if she hadn’t she’d have gone elsewhere.
The thing is, it’s not necessarily a derogatory term. Sure, an Indian or a Bangladeshi isn’t going to like it. It’s like calling a Scot “Irish” because they’re white and have an accent. It’s down to how people perceive being called it.
It reminds me of a conversation I had in Israel a while back. I thought I’d blogged about this, but I can’t find such a post so I guess now. I was in a hostel in Jerusalem and at some point in the discussion, used the term “half-caste” to describe someone.
An American girl who up until this point had seemed quite reasonable, just went apeshit. “You can’t use that word! You racist” and so forth. I felt genuinely puzzled. I’ve been using the word since I was a kid and with no ill-meaning or repurcussion before.
A very dear friend of mine is from Sri Lanka, though grew up in Newcastle. We went to school together and we’ve shared holidays (we also went through a phase at school where I’d call him “nigger” and he’d call me “honky bastard” – never any ill will meant). He’s pretty dark-skinned and is married to a delightful Welsh woman with red hair and the whitest skin you’ve ever seen.
Their children are beautiful. At the time I was in Jerusalem, they only had the one daughter and I emailed it. I asked how he felt about the word “half-caste”. Was it offensive? Had I missed a bulletin somewhere telling me I was no longer allowed to use it? Apparently not, it seems, as he confessed that when their daughter wasn’t listening they’d refer to her as their “little halfie”.
So why did the American girl jump down my throat when I used the word? Perceptions differ, and if a guy in the army is going to get suicidal about being referred to as a “Paki” then he’s got no place there. The good thing is that the person in question certainly didn’t seem to have an issue with it.
Which brings me to the final point. If the person who the term was aimed at didn’t give a **** – then what harm is done and why the **** do the tabloids care?
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But I don’t think your grandma would go up to said corner shop and say “Hello, Paki!”
and I find it hard to believe that any Pakistani person in the Army would go “Hey, I’m , but you can call me Paki”. It’s just not a word you’d use casually like that, especially when you were born in the latter quarter of the 20th Century.
He’s a prat.
I guess perhaps it’s because I’m not a “minority” (although I think these days I statistically would be in Bradford), but I just don’t see how nicknames referring to race, colour, etc are any worse than those referring to size, hair colour and so on.
It always comes down to how the word was intended to have been taken. It’s context. And as the Palace have issued, it was a friendly term which said soldier never complained about.
Now, had Harry been at a Premiership football game and screaming “You Paki bastard” at a player on the pitch… that would obviously be a completely different context and therefore the craploids would have been correct that he was being an arse.
It just seems to me that they haven’t had any material available to make the royals seem like ******* for a while, so they dug out something that happened three years ago.
Ultimitely this is about the News of the Screws having another non-story to harp on about.
Having served in the TA I can tell you that worse terms and bandied about by the instructors and officers (bald northern c*nt in my particular case by one officer – and he is black).
It’s more pertinent that the Sun (and by extension the News of the Screws) hold themselves up to be a supporter of the armed forces abroad yet when he’s been exposed to danger by serving his country with distinction they don’t bring that up at all.
If I ruled the world I’d have the tabloids abolished and the people who work for the Sun, Star, Mirror, NotW et al lined up and shot.
Damo – and let’s not forget it was the same newspapers who a) said how brave he was for going to Afghanistan and then b) placed his entire regiment in danger by figuring out exactly where he was situated and publishing the details publicly.
One could almost think they were bored of him and decided it would be a better story if he was killed. You know. Like his mum.
You’re forgetting the slight problem that certainly for the last 30 years, words like that have been shouted as insults in the playground and the street, and the knee-jerk reaction (certainly to me for ‘chink’) is to feel insulted and betrayed if anyone in my circle of friends were to use it.
and again, I find it *very hard* to believe that said ‘friend’ of Harry is genuinely uninsulted by the use of that term, especially by someone who we’re all “supposed” to look up to.
Worst terms may be bandied around by Army officers and the like, but that doesn’t make it right. Or are we suggesting that the Armed Forces should be held to seperate rules to the rest of society?
I’m saying society needs to move on. Similarly to my grandma’s use of the word “Paki” as a generic term for “corner shop” (maybe it’s a Scots thing), it was/is still common to refer to a Chinese restaurant as “the Chinkie’s”.
Again, it’s all contextual.
I guess in my mind, I don’t see a need to insult anyone because of their race hence I don’t see any racial terms as being abusive – because I personally wouldn’t use them that way. As I said in the last reply people should be insulted by others due to things like their race/religion.
However, I appreciate that some ******* do feel a need to do so. I just don’t see why we (normal people) can’t use those terms descriptively without them having to automatically assume they’re insults.
The boy’s father said in the story that if someone called him “Pakistani” he’d be proud even though these days he’s a British citizen through and through – and right he is. It’s his history. But to me, “Paki” is an abbreviation, not a different word.
I guess it’s different cultures, different places in the same argument and perhaps different generations.
Hey, I used to get bullied at school because I had a Scots accent (I lived there for 2 years). I hated being connected to Scotland as a result and I lashed out at anyone who referred to me as “Scottie” and the like. However, I bet there are hundreds of genuine Scots who’s have no problem at all with being called “Scottie”.
OK, it’s more a nationality thing than a race one but it’s a similar situation – contextual again.
was listening to radio 5 last night and they had a presenter banging on about this.
They asked the question – does serving in the army make you rascist?
i turned it off at that point
I think it’s more likely to make you a realist…
The only thing that *makes* racists, I think, is other racists. Or being abused by people of the race you decide you don’t like. In which case, I should join Al Qaeda on the basis that just about every person who’s ever screwed me over has been a non-Muslim white person.
you know it’s all your fault mate – that’s what you get for having a beard and a newcastle tattoo
**** off you fat, bald bastard.
🙂
Sorry – fat, bald, *white* bastard.
you forgot to include Northern.
and I have a beard at the mo(the shame).
You freak.
always like to provide amusement.
is there a lot of snow in Chamonix this year?
I’m thinking of going to France for some boarding this year (Tignes is a possibility)
There is a fair but, but nothing fresh for 3 weeks. Apparently rocks are showing through on the pistes already.
Tignes is meant to be fine, though, as are Val d’Isere, Belle Plagne, La Rosiere and Les Arcs. I’ll be off round all of them over the next few days.
Speaking from experience and as a ‘minority’ whose parents emigrated to the UK from a former British colony, context is deffo the key here.
Harry was with a bunch of squaddies and what he said was in private, was not aimed maliciously and no complaint was made. No, it wasn’t right, but neither did it warrant the hysterical tabloid front pages.
I’m sure if he’d been talking about women with the squaddies and that had been recorded too, the outrageous headlines would have branded him a ‘sexist pig’, etc etc.
Nothing’s happening on Celebrity Big Brother so they have to put something ‘sensational’ to get the masses talking – I don’t bother reading tabloids cos they’re full of crap.
My first day at high school, one lad taunted me with a racist name – I smacked him in the mouth, although he was at least a head taller than me and could have battered me easily. His sister stopped us from having a rather one-sided fight. He never said a word to me in the remaining five years at school.
No, I’m not condoning violence, but friends of mine have since used that same name in reference but I wasn’t offended – it’s all about context.
I was undoubtedly called other names at school but you know the name that hurt the most? ‘Swot’ – because I wasn’t one, I was just naturally clever… 😉
Smart arse.
And I’m only calling you that because I’m well out of punching range.